Growling with toys

[rachel540]

Hello! This one isn't about Pepper, but Peppers brother. His owners think that he is dominating the household (it is quite funny actually how he does seem to be terrorising the family but he is just being an energetic boisterous puppy that needs better training) they are using dominance techniques to train him. A lot of the problems they are having I have read about on here and tried to pass on the advice. But the reason I am posting...whenever he is given a new toy he grabs it, pushes it against his humans and growls, they react by putting him in his crate to show they overide whatever he is trying to prove and remove the toy. I haven't heard of this before and wondered if anyone knew why he would do that? Peppers response would be to bounce about the place with excitement before settling down to destroy the new toy

[emmabeth]

I suspect he wants to play, and most dog toys are MUCH better and more fun, if shared with a human, so he shoves it at a human and says 'grr play play!'..

I feel v sorry for this puppy really, poor guy.

[rachel540]

Thanks Emmabeth. Pepper has never growled so I haven't come across it before, I wasn't sure how to interpret it, but makes sense he just wants to play They really don't realise they are having an adverse effect on the little guy (and causing most of his "unwanted behaviour" themselves) and obviously not even trying to understand what he might be telling them, they are convinced everything is dominance related I can only try and maybe one day they will listen. They're really not making it easy for themselves, they should be enjoying it because he sounds like such a comedy act the things he gets upto

[Sarah83]

Poor little guy probably wants to play and is trying to tell them that, how unfair for him to be punished for it A growl isn't necessarily aggression. Some dogs are just "talkers" and grumble and growl in response to pretty much anything. What breed is he?

[rachel540]

Hi Sarah. He's a working lab same as Pepper - it's her brother from the same litter. My partner works with his owner and share how they are getting on. We haven't met up with them yet for a playdate but I would love to. They just have this dominance thing set in their brain and every movement he makes is related to it

[Sarah83]

I used to have that mind set and unfortunately it seemed to get me into a vicious circle. The more I looked for dominance stuff the more I saw it. The more I saw it the more I acted to stop it and the more I acted to stop it the more my dog protested against my unfair treatment and the more I saw him trying to "be alpha". Every single problem I had with Shadow started to ease or disappear completely once I stopped seeing everything he did in terms of dominance. And quite frankly it's bloody exhausting having to constantly monitor everything you do, everything your dog does and every interaction between you in case you slip up and your dog seizes his chance to take over the world.

Has your partner tried recommending any websites or books or anything? Not in a pushy way just a "oh I found this interesting/helpful!" sort of thing.

[ladybug1802]

Poor little lad As has been said he is just trying to play...try and encourage them to not see a growl as bad, especially in that situation. It is his way of syaing,come on...plaaaay with me! He is punished for being a dog...very sad.

The dominance view is very outdated, as you know! I have just done an essay on it...maybe you cvould suggest they read a small booki by Barry Eaton called 'Dominance in dogs-fact or fiction?'. It is onhlya small book but has a tonne of info in it which would really help them understand why it is outdated and why it doesnt work as a training theory.

[jacksdad]

I used to have that mind set and unfortunately it seemed to get me into a vicious circle. The more I looked for dominance stuff the more I saw it. The more I saw it the more I acted to stop it and the more I acted to stop it the more my dog protested against my unfair treatment and the more I saw him trying to "be alpha". Every single problem I had with Shadow started to ease or disappear completely once I stopped seeing everything he did in terms of dominance. And quite frankly it's bloody exhausting having to constantly monitor everything you do, everything your dog does and every interaction between you in case you slip up and your dog seizes his chance to take over the world.

Has your partner tried recommending any websites or books or anything? Not in a pushy way just a "oh I found this interesting/helpful!" sort of thing.

i was about to post the very points you make, you say it better than I could have.

[WufWuf]

I used to have that mind set and unfortunately it seemed to get me into a vicious circle. The more I looked for dominance stuff the more I saw it. The more I saw it the more I acted to stop it and the more I acted to stop it the more my dog protested against my unfair treatment and the more I saw him trying to "be alpha". Every single problem I had with Shadow started to ease or disappear completely once I stopped seeing everything he did in terms of dominance. And quite frankly it's bloody exhausting having to constantly monitor everything you do, everything your dog does and every interaction between you in case you slip up and your dog seizes his chance to take over the world.

Has your partner tried recommending any websites or books or anything? Not in a pushy way just a "oh I found this interesting/helpful!" sort of thing.

i was about to post the very points you make, you say it better than I could have.

Same here Well said.

[runlikethewind]

Buy them the book Plenty in Life is Free. I too feel very sorry for this little chap. Why must people read into stuff way beyond what is necessary. This is where the term HE JUST WANTS TO PLAY is fitting.

Poor thing. Can you get them to join up here or one one of the facebook pages dedicated to non intimidation training?

[ClareMarsh]

Poor little guy probably wants to play and is trying to tell them that, how unfair for him to be punished for it A growl isn't necessarily aggression. Some dogs are just "talkers" and grumble and growl in response to pretty much anything. What breed is he?

Ted is a grumbler, he'll sit for attention, play etc but if I don't spot him or ignore him he remains seated but makes sure I am aware of his displeasure by grumbling at me. I find it hilarious .

Hope you can steer them in the right direction otherwise you're going to have an interesting experiment where you can compare the results of the two different approaches.

[Sarah83]

Ted is a grumbler, he'll sit for attention, play etc but if I don't spot him or ignore him he remains seated but makes sure I am aware of his displeasure by grumbling at me. I find it hilarious .

Rupert used to scare people to death with his growling. I used to tell them it was when he went silent you worried I held conversations with him, I'd talk to him and he'd growl and grumble back at me lol. I used to wonder what would have happened if he'd ended up in a home with someone who'd been convinced his growling was aggression rather than him just vocalising. For all Spencer's willing to dance around the living room with me he doesn't talk to me.

[ClareMarsh]

I held conversations with him, I'd talk to him and he'd growl and grumble back at me lol. I used to wonder what would have happened if he'd ended up in a home with someone who'd been convinced his growling was aggression rather than him just vocalising.

It doesn't bare thinking about does it!

My mum loves that Ted grumbles at her and they have a chat that tends to go like this

Mum "What do you want"
Ted "grumble grumble"
Mum "I don't know what you want"
Ted "grumble grumble"
Mum "Tell me what you want"
Ted "grumble grumble",
Mum: (turns to me) "what can I give him"

[bendog]

Poppy will sit when she wants attention too, and then if she's unnoticed give this horrible yap that makes me jump out of my skin everytime.

Ben just sits and whines which is the most irritating thing ever. But my Nan also encourages him to "talk" which is like an "arrararahoo" type noise. I do it sometimes but generally I prefer him quiet, since the "talking" gets annoying after a while.

Both Ben is very growly when playing, and will bring a toy and prance around you with it.

[rachel540]

Dragging up an oldish post..... The family who own peppers brother as mentioned above have got worse than ever with the dominance theory. We havent spoken for a while but my OH came home yesterday telling me about a conversation with the guy. Basically he has been following Ceasar Millans training books, dvds, etc and convinced their dog is the dominant one of the litter (and theres no way we can understand what theyre going through because our puppy is submissive - i call it different personalities and confidence levels but hey-ho!) It doesnt help that their dog has humped since the day he got home, it does sound excessive and quite aggressive the way he clings on and mouths them, and while i think it is mostly down to him being a 1year old puppy who is going through "puberty" and is horny as hell and also now become a habbit partly caused by boredom, they are convinced he is proving his dominance over them and his testosterone levels will continue to increase and the problem will get worse and worse, it is no surprise they are having him neutered to fix this problem.

This conversation reminded me of this post and the books suggested are on order.

We are hoping to meet up for a walk (another issue is that they walk him in the same place twice a day at the same times zzzz or more shockingly put him on the treadmill and we are trying to encourage him to mix it up and put the effort in) what advice would you give? And what if he humps pepper could he cause damage?