only one type of training method?

lablver2 · Post by **lablver2** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:17 pm

There is of another factor in how we view our dogs. Pet owners see their companion animals as another family member. Its not just a dog its my friend. Working handers see their dogs as their partner...the bond between Police dogs and their trainers can be quite strong and emotional. Recently a criminal pulled a police dog over a bridge as he jumped. The entire community mourned the passing of the dog and surving perp got the max punishment allowed by law.

I remember the whole Coronado incident. I go over that bridge almost every other month and it scares the living daylights out of me. I have taken a sail boat almost under it and chaperoned a NJROTC event that was based on one of the naval Ships. We were on a amphbious carrier and went right under that bridge. It's a very high bridge. I read about that and talked to a family friend (who happens to be a k9 cop) and he was deeply saddened about it too. I still can't believe that happened. The sadder thing is that the dog died and the criminal lived. I am in the process of getting my degree in criminal justice then I too hope to become a k9 officer. When I read that story though my heart melted thinking that in the future that could be me having to watch my partner being under that abuse.

Gershep1 · Post by **Gershep1** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:38 am

Rescueteam wrote:I might point out that not every sheepdog handler uses the same methods which include throwing a staff at the dog.....again just because a handler does not throw a staff at a dog does not mean that they do not use aversive or other forms of force training at points in the herding environment.

And, sorry, I should have made it clear that I have not seen a herder throw the staff to hit the dog or used that method as the first choice of correction. I have seen it thrown to create a "shock value" sort of diversion when a dog that should know better was smarting off and getting too strong with the flock.

I should have also mentioned that while police dogs are carefully chosen and carefully trained, schutzhund and ring sport training methods often cross the line into excessive force, depending on the trainer and/or group a person trains with. I'm certainly not putting down either sport since I've been into schutzhund since the 70's, but the quest to win a title or prize can get out of hand, and can unfortunately create unstable dogs.

Gershep1 · Post by **Gershep1** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:45 am

Tenzin wrote:I'm not sure what exactly it means to "throw a staff at a dog." Does this mean actually hitting him with the flying stick? I have to admit that doesn't sound good to me, though I've never tried to train a sheep herder.

Sorry. I should have made it clear that I've never seen a herder throw the staff to hit the dog. I've seen it thrown near the dog to create a "shock value" diversion when a dog that should know better gets too strong with the flock.

revoleiggod · Post by **revoleiggod** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:51 am

During the brief discussion of training methods between Laurie and JD he unequivocally proclaimed to be "old school" and admitted to scruffing his dogs. 'Nuf said.

However unless he was specifically told that only positive methods would be welcome in this competition, I think railroading him in the way that they did was wrong.

Gershep1 · Post by **Gershep1** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:00 am

lablver2 wrote:I remember the whole Coronado incident. I go over that bridge almost every other month and it scares the living daylights out of me. I have taken a sail boat almost under it and chaperoned a NJROTC event that was based on one of the naval Ships. We were on a amphbious carrier and went right under that bridge. It's a very high bridge. I read about that and talked to a family friend (who happens to be a k9 cop) and he was deeply saddened about it too. I still can't believe that happened. The sadder thing is that the dog died and the criminal lived. I am in the process of getting my degree in criminal justice then I too hope to become a k9 officer. When I read that story though my heart melted thinking that in the future that could be me having to watch my partner being under that abuse.

Something similar happened in Sacramento, CA. The dog died, the criminal lived. My heart always goes out to the K9 officers and their dogs. One dog was almost fatally stabbed a few years ago and the officer practically lived in the UC Davis ICU unit to help his partner get well. There was an outpouring of cards, love and support for both of them from all over the state. Happily, that dog survived and retired with honors.

lablver2 · Post by **lablver2** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:55 am

I saw pictures of a k9 team who both the dog and the officer were critically injured. I remember the photo of the cop looking all beat up and the dog with a cone. Both were smiling though.

That's one thing that scares me about the carreer path I have chosen as I do not want to be the guy who watches her dog being thrown down the Coronado bridge. However I want to protect and keep peace on the streets and I want to do that with a dog right by my side.

Lis & Addy · Post by **Lis & Addy** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:46 pm

Aussie wrote:So what does everyone think of Tamar Gellar? She seems to be very positive but I can't find her book or Victoria's books in any Illinois book stores. Can you only get them on line? Never bought anything on the internet. I have seen the occasional book by Cesar at the stores.

I've seen both Victoria's books, and Tamar Geller's, in bookstores. Barnes & Noble or Borders should have them or can certainly get them for you.

Lis

Gershep1 · Post by **Gershep1** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:36 am

lablver2 wrote:That's one thing that scares me about the carreer path I have chosen as I do not want to be the guy who watches her dog being thrown down the Coronado bridge. However I want to protect and keep peace on the streets and I want to do that with a dog right by my side.

You have chosen a very difficult job, but the world needs people like you and your eventual K9 partner. Make sure you join a police force that gives your dog a kevlar vest or buy one for the dog yourself. I'd like both of you to be as safe as possible!

lablver2 · Post by **lablver2** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:57 pm

Yeah. It was either become a k9 officer or become a animal behaviorist. My family thankfully is supportive but have told me they would kill me if I joined LAPD or another very dangerous police force. I don't blame them however where I am looking at isn't too safe either. I want to finish college first before I go into the force. I can't wait though especially the thought of what k9 I will eventually get.

Don't worry though I will make sure both my dog and I have vests. I don't care if I have to pay for it out of my own pocket to me that is a necesity for anyone in the police force.