Demoing Positive Training, Baby Spaniel and Frenchie Puppy

[minkee]

My brother-in-law(ish) has just got a 9 week old spaniel puppy. He wants to "train it properly" and I want to show him what that can mean! I'm going round this coming weekend to show them clicker training.... I want to be able to be really clear so they can get the idea, so it would be nice to do something that makes them think 'cool this stuff is awesome!' but at the same time I don't want to teach her something that's inappropriate for first behaviours.

I think I might stick with luring to begin with, and we can move onto freeshaping when they get the idea a bit better.

They also have a 7 month old French Bulldog. I met her when we went round the other night and I brought some livercake with me and was starting to shape a 'leave it' - or at least teach her not to mug from the hand but I think the whole situation was too much excitement, and the livercake too high value, so I just put it away so there was nothing to cause any conflict between the two pups.

I also bought them a copy of this: http://www.skycatpublications.com/pages ... 0Mind.html which was recommended in the thread I made when my neighbours got a new puppy and I give them a book. I may have also bought myself a copy at the same time I've also got them some bully sticks and some clickers - they have 3 kids so I thought they might like to get in on the training too.

Any advice? I think the spaniel should be straight forward really, but any tips on working with the frenchie? I don't have much experience with them but I do know they have a reputation as being bull headed, and I can see her just spending the whole time trying to get the treats by brute force rather than engaging her brain!

[minkee]

I should add that they have zero training knowledge beyond having owned dogs all their life and watching that shiny toothed chap. They were telling the Frenchie off for weeing on the carpet, etc. HOWEVER I know that she especially doesn't *want* to believe in all this dominance stuff. She mentioned how an old dog they had used to wee on the bed and said that 'They say that means their being dominant' and I said it's probably just anxiety and wanting to be somewhere that smells of you which she thought made a lot of sense! So I think there's a long way to come, but a willingness to go there

[Swanny1790]

You might want to consider training the two dogs separately. That way the behavior of one doesn't distract or interfere with the behavior of the other. With the wee little one you're starting with a fresh slate and I doubt you'll take long to train a lured 'sit' or other simple behavior. That opens the door to discuss shaping or free-shaping.

Something worth considering, however, is that dogs really are pretty good at imitating, and if the Frenchie sees the wee puppy earning treats by performing the cued behavior, s/he may well figure out that she can do the same.

[minkee]

Thanks, Swanny. I think I will do the standard 'sit' 'down' and so on with the spaniel, and I think maybe teach a positive interrupter to both of them, just because I think it'll be a useful tool for them to learn (over shouting at them).

I didn't want to teach 'paw' or anything like that as it can be an annoying 'go to' behaviour, but I think maybe showing the potential of +R training would outweigh the annoyance. Maybe chin instead of paw? That's so cute that it can't ever be annoying

[JudyN]

I think a 'touch' command can be easy to teach, and pretty useful to manouevre a pup in a way that doesn't involve pushing, pulling or picking up, which sets a good precedent for later on.

I'm thinking of a touch to the palm, but I don't know if this could clash with teaching the pup to back off from your hand to get a treat rather than try to eat his way into your fist. I started teaching 'touch' with a target stick, which might be a worthwhile alternative.

[minkee]

I think I'd like to find a way to get the Frenchie to pay attention and do something neat - I think that will impress them more than anything the puppy might do. I think maybe I'll bring some cat kibble as a lower value treat, so she can get her brain in the game a little bit rather than freaking out about awesome livercake.

[minkee]

Well I went round to do this yesterday and I think it went really well. I hope it did anyway!

Predictably the spaniel pup was brilliant, we got a great sit, lie down and spin. But what I did do was quit really soon to try and drive home the point that you want to stop the training before THEY get bored, so it's always a super thing to do. Infact it was Dan that suggested to break there, which was a great idea and shows just how much he gets it <3

When we swapped to the Frenchie, she was predictably ALL OVER the food. She only knows 'sit' - and even then what she really knows is 'ooh there's treats, I'm gonna put my bum on the floor'. So we started on a lie down - which was quite good because I'd shown them how to lure a down with the spaniel pup by moving the treat between her legs and she would flop down to get it. The Frenchie is closer to the ground generally, and more solid, so I showed them how to lure her under the leg so she lies down, and after a few reps she was lying down under a big ol' gap under the leg, so improving. What was tough though was getting her to concentrate on an empty handed lure when there were so many livercake crumbs around, and bags of treats. I think once she makes that leap of 'doing things = I get treats' rather than 'trying to get the treats = I get treats' it'll be a lot easier for her and for them.

We separated them for each of those sessions, then they had a bully stick each, which they settled down perfectly, they were very impressed! Though I did warn them that they should watch them as they're really high value treat and of course the Frenchie finished first and was after the Spaniel's one. We separated them and let the pup chew while the Frenchie had another go at training, then the Spaniel decided she wanted a go so they swapped.

I think I will have to go back and reinforce the fact that they MUST get a treat after every click. I had to point that out on more than one occassion but I think I got the point over in the end - I told them that this is building the foundations at this point, we want them to think that listening to and working with us is THE best thing ever. And the guy is a groundworker so he understands the importance of foundations!

While I did emphasise that you have to go at the pup's pace, I think I will go back at some point and show them how to progress bit by bit. I didn't really tell them anything about building up distractions, or about how to get the behaviour reliable, and only mentioned when to add the cue, I didn't really show them that as neither pup was ready. I did leave them some kikopup links though, so hopefully they'll watch!

All in all I think it went well, and I think I need to go back anyway to get my cute puppy fix!

[minkee]

Oh, I also gave them that Dogs in Mind book, which covers just about everything really simply and elegantly. I hope they read it - I bookmarked the bit about spay and neuter, and also housetraining, as I think those are the most relevant for them. Hopefully if they read one of those bits they'll get into it and read the rest, too.

I also tried to find a local puppy class for them, there's one that seems.... okay, but she has a big rant about crates at the bottom that means I'm no too sure. I think I'd rather just give them a bunch of one-to-ones (not that I'm a proper trainer but you know), or find a way to set up some nice, practical interactions that are going to teach her more about getting on in life.

[Swanny1790]

Thanks for sharing the report. I'm glad the result was so great. You did GOOD.

[minkee]

Thanks for the +R, Swanny, I appreciate it