jacksdad wrote:just because someone is "top of the game" doesn't make their methods sound or the only way to achieve the end goal. people can win in spite of rather than because of their methods. keep that in mind.
Thanks jacksdad...really insightful comment
jacksdad wrote:back to the real world, just because you could train the skills needed to compete using other steps still doesn't address is this the right environment for your dog over all. that is a whole other question.
In my case I think it is, as we both really enjoy ourselves. I would never act on an instruction that i didn't think was right for my dog...I think my initial question was more based on 'what do I say', as opposed to nodding and smiling, whilst inside thinking..arrghh not in a million years! Thinking one thing and saying nothing just isn't me!! I think everyone has given me much food for thought though, so hopefully next time I'm in this situation I will have the strength to say something constructive...
Nettle wrote:How lucky the collie people are their dogs' drive is to work by herding. They think they are creating "chase" drive, but a collie's drive is to herd. Which means run out and bring back. So when collie people razz up their dogs, they increase the speed of the outrun, increase the herding bite (watch a few of these before they 'get it' and see the change in the collie's eyes) and increase the desire to stay close.
Terrier drive is to KILL. Terriers, whatever we do with them as pets, are bred to kill big toothy animals, often in the dark down holes. They need insane courage, and are quite capable of razzing themselves up, never mind getting razzed up by us. And once razzed, as the veteran terrier owners among you will already know, they don't de-razz quickly. Generally speaking they actually NEED a kill if they are to calm down within a reasonable timescale. For them, the act of killing releases feelgood hormones.
Nettle thank you for setting this out so clearly...its one of things you sort of know, but then when someone spells it out, a light bulb comes on!!
jacksdad wrote:maybe one of these days we can have a chat about "drive theory", motivation, and reinforcement. how they are related or not, how to use them
correctly etc.
Yes please! In my head I still don't see anything wrong with it...(Nettle bangs head against wall
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
). Of course I understand clearly now why I should not be razzing my terrier up...but in my head 'drive' means a desire to do something..whether this is genetic hardwiring, such as hunting, or something we manafacture, ie: desire to work /train...it dosen't necessarily mean being wound up...just willing keenness ...So when i say to Hattie, 'shall we do some training?' and she goes somersaulting round the room..or if I ask for a move and she gives it to me busting with enthusiasm..that's drive in my head..which is a good thing right?....
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
Maybe I should start a new thread...
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)