Training Pomeranian to sit??

maryhelen329 · Post by **maryhelen329** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:58 am

My precious 5 month old pom, Stella, has been doing beautifully with her clicker training. Just in this past week she has learned sit, roundabout, down, come, and shake, but i cannot get her to stay. I will tell her to sit and then wait a few seconds to click&treat and that works fine, but when I try to back up she just hops up and follows. I would love to hear how you taught your dog to stay so I can try some new techniques with Stella.

Fundog · Post by **Fundog** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:14 pm

When teaching my dogs to "stay," I actually had a helper-- for the first session, at least. I had one of my children stay with her, holding on to her while I said "stay" and took just one step back. Then after only a heartbeat, I immediately praised and treated with "good stay." Then I repeated, and took one step back, but waited the space of two heartbeats, then immediately praised and treated. After ten minutes of this, said child helper was bored and abandoned us. So I then practiced again, the same way (just one step back, one space of a heartbeat, immediate praise and treat), but without the child. It worked. When I could take a step back and have the dog stay put for three heartbeats, I ended the session on that successful note. "Stay" training is one of the more difficult to grasp, so it can take a good deal longer than any of the other commands. The key is to work it very gradually, just one step, for one heartbeat, at a time. With my dogs, when they can hold position for three seconds, then I start taking two steps back, just one second at a time. In a day or two, I will be able to go around the corner of the kitchen to the great room, but I come right back and reward immediately. The next time, I might be out of sight for a few seconds longer. And always go to the dog to reward; never call her out of her stay to reward for a stay. Even now, when I put my dog in a stay so I can hide some treats for her, I go to her to release her; I never call her out of her stay.

Noobs · Post by **Noobs** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:14 pm

When I taught my dog to stay I increased the time first. When he was reliable to about 5 seconds with me right in front of him, I would back up one step only and wait 1 second again. At one step backwards I would increase to 2, 3, 4, then 5 seconds. When he was reliable at one step back and 5 seconds, then I would go 2 steps back and wait 1 second again. Does that make sense? Keep the distance short and increase time. Each time you go back one step, go back to the shortest time and increase time at one step only.

Also, when you click/treat, make sure you take a step toward Stella and give her the treat (so she doesn't move from her spot) rather than clicking then having her come get the treat from you.

Someone else might be able to explain that better than I did, but that's the basic idea. Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

maryhelen329 · Post by **maryhelen329** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:19 pm

These tips helped. I just had to have a LOT of patience. She is a mama's girl and she prefers to be at my feet (or on them) at ALL times, so this one was very difficult, but she's about got it down now. Still some major issues with potty training, but I'll post a new thread for that.

maryhelen329 · Post by **maryhelen329** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:10 am

Just realized I put "sit" in the title when I obviously meant "stay." Oops! Hehe.

Fundog · Post by **Fundog** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:35 am

Wow. That's pretty impressive, if you've seen results this quickly-- it hasn't even been 24 hours since you posted! Well done.

maximoo · Post by **maximoo** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:38 am

Fundog, going back to the dog to release it from a 'stay' is what I do, b/c that's what I've read, been told, observed in training classes, and even seen Victoria do it on IMOTD. However, I recently witnessed another training class & the trainer used the word 'release" instead of "ok" which I use to let Max know he can go. She said people say "ok" frequently with out realizing it, and that "release' is a better alternative. No chance of let dog go when you didn't want him to.(For ex: You put dog into a 'stay' kid/hubby whoever says something or ph rings & you reply 'OK' & dog gets up when you didn't want him too) It hasn't happened to me but it's possible of course. I haven't chg'd the word yet but I think I will.
Also, a man @ the dog park was practicing 'stay' with his GS pup (9mo) from quite a distance. He released dog from that far distance. I was curious and asked him why is he doing it that way. He said that he trained
pup in the beginning by going back to him to release, but now he is in an advanced stage and that dog can be released from human no matter how far away human is. Sounded logical.

Leigha · Post by **Leigha** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:49 am

Okay, well here's my dumb question. How do you teach the dog that "release" means it's okay to get up? My first problem is that things besides sit, Bruiser doesn't do long enough to be "released." And then when I tell him "Good boy, okay" he looks at me and doesn't necessarily get up. We're still working to lengthen our down-stay, usually he'll stay down until I treat him, then he's back up.

maximoo · Post by **maximoo** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:04 am

Probably have a light line on dog & when command is given & dog doesn't move he get a little tug. When he then gets up he gets rewarded. I never trained Max to specifically move he just seems to get up/move when I say 'ok' Or maybe you can physically touch him in some way & pair it with the command or teach him a hand signal for getting up.

Fundog · Post by **Fundog** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:29 am

When I taught Annie to stay, it was usually in conjunction with the "Find it!" game, so naturally, when I went to release her, not only did I praise her ("Good Stay"), but then I gave her a new directive, "Go find it!" If we aren't playing the game and I've had her in a stay for a different reason, then I just go to her with praise and a treat and then walk off, often inviting her to come with me. She gets the idea. And yes, maximoo, occasionally I will call Annie out of her stay without actually going to her, but I only do that because Annie is so well trained now, and I don't do it every time. Dottie, on the other hand, has not yet reached that level of obedience. Unfortunately, I have difficulty finding a time and space to teach Dottie the stay command without Annie getting in the way. I will have to bribe one of my children to take Annie out while I work with Dottie. But Dottie has gotten rather good at everything else: sit, down, come, wait, up, stand, and even "stay inside." She just doesn't understand a solid sit/stay.

emmabeth · Post by **emmabeth** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:19 pm

I use two different commands for my dogs....

Stay = stay there, I will be coming back for you.

This one i NEVER release them from this at a distance, it is never followed by another command.

Wait = stay there, i will give you another instruction shortly..

This one is the one I can release from a distance, send them off to do something else, throw a ball, recall them... etc etc.

I find this eliminates confusion, and i teach the stay first and then introduce the wait command when the stay is fairly reliable so the dog doesnt confuse the two things.

maryhelen329 · Post by **maryhelen329** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:17 pm

Fundog: yes! Stella is a very quick learner once she's knows what to do. I just needed that little push to let her know what she's supposed to do, which is stay.

Emmabeth: I really like that idea. I will have to introduce wait once she gets this one down.

Noobs · Post by **Noobs** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:30 am

Emmabeth, that's what I do as well. Murphy's stay isn't reliable from a distance yet, we still only practice that at home and not outside, since we're in an apartment with no yard and I can't work on that from a distance. Everywhere else he knows the "wait" command, and he seems to know that "wait" means I'll let him do whatever it is I'm asking him to wait for (go out the door, cross the street, meet that dog, etc.). He also seems to understand that an open palm with my arm extended out means "stay" and an open palm with my arm bent, hand close to my body, means "wait".

Fundog · Post by **Fundog** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:18 am

I taught my girls "wait" also; in fact I taught them that first, even before "stay." But for us, "wait" is just a pause in whatever it is we are doing at that moment, for example, if we are walking and I need to stop and blow my nose, then "wait" means, "stop a second and don't pull on the leash." When I'm ready to set off again, I say, "Okay, let's go." Interestingly, they know "wait" so well, that if I lose my hold on the leash, I can call out "wait," and they will stop dead in their tracks and wait for me to come pick up the leash again. Pretty cool, huh?

mum24dog · Post by **mum24dog** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:01 am

emmabeth wrote:I use two different commands for my dogs....

Stay = stay there, I will be coming back for you.

This one i NEVER release them from this at a distance, it is never followed by another command.

Wait = stay there, i will give you another instruction shortly..

I used to do that but now rarely do either with some of my dogs that have been trained to understand that whatever static position I have cued is to be held until released or another cue is given.
Hence Sit means sit there until I tell you otherwise - could be 5 secs, could be a 5 min out of sight stay.
It only applies to my older ones as that's the way they were trained. The more dogs you get, unfortunately there is less time to invest in each of them so later additions haven't had the amount of training put into the earlier arrivals.

Pam