Aggressive lab?

[edardass]

I have a beautiful one and a half year old chocolate lab that we got from an excellent breeder. Since day one we took her to puppy school where she graduated to be an AKC puppy star, extremely well socialized and always exercised everyday between runs on the beach leashed and off leash and dog parks (still never seems enough).
My husband and I lead a very active and travel filled life; our dogs (we also have an 8 year old mellow yellow lab) are included in mostly everything we do.

3 months ago my husband deployed (Navy), I mostly walk the dogs anyway so I still ran or walked them every day off leash and on leash. 8 weeks ago I tore my tendon while I was trying to hold back Samara (the chocolate lab) I had to have surgery to repair it and I was in a splint for 6 weeks. I still walked them as much as I could but it seemed that my injury and my husband’s long term absence has had a serious negative effect on her. She has became aggressive with other dogs on leash and off, she lunges and barks like a mad dog when on leash and off leash if dogs a get too close she attacks. Never makes contact but still looks so scary.

The dogs are our kids, they do everything with us, and there is no room for aggression here, so my intervention so far has been dog training every Saturday, a dog walker on Tuesdays and doggie daycare on Saturdays. Besides breaking the bank it has helped a little, however in daycare she does not play with the dogs, she does not aggress either she just follows the humans around. She does well in class; she is an extremely intelligent lab.
Due to my injury I could not control her if she aggressed off leash so I stopped taking her off leash on the beach by myself that is why I got the dog walker but she really needs the run free and swim time a lot more.

Please help me I don’t know what else to do, and my husband does not come back for another three months. I watch all of the dog shows on TV and I take tips from some but I cannot relate to most because she is very well exercised, well loved, gets tons of attention and well socialized.

[easilyconfused]

Is she reactive towards other dogs with the dog walker?
I recently walked past an old woman in the forest nearby who's springer would not let any other dog near her. She had an injured leg and was using a stick to walk. Her dog was protecting her by stopping other dogs getting to close.
With the dissaperance of your OH in your dogs eyes at least) and your injury she is probably having a confidence issue.

[edardass]

That was my thought initially, I do think it is a major part of the issue. The first dog walker I had was a female and she attacked two dogs while she had her, first time was because of a ball the second because there was a hole in the ground that she was smelling and another dog approached. The dog walker put a muzzle on her the rest of the time. I thought that it was not a good way to teach her that she should not react and I was afraid that if a dog reacted to her aggression that she could not protect herself. I do think the walker did the right thing by muzzling her, I have also considered muzzling her myself during or off leash walks. So I decided to try a male dog walker, she responds great with him, I believe its related to her missing her male figure at home or feeling protected.

In conclusion I think it began with protecting me or her becoming insecure due to my injury however, I am fearful that it is progressing and she is still a puppy so I have to do something about it now before it is too late.

PS I am new to this site, and I am so happy to be part of it. Thank you

[Labsrule]

Hello, sorry you are having a few issues with your girlie, I don't think she is being particularly agressive, probably is just a bit confused by 1) your injury and inability to do all the things you normally do with her; 2) your husband's absense.

I imagine she is a bit confused by all the sudden changes in her life and feels a bit insecure. You say that at day care she follows the humans about and does not seem interested in the dogs. I imagine she is not overly social with other dogs and prefers people so no surprise she does not like rude, pushy, in yer face dogs near her and makes no bones about telling them that One of my Labs is like this, does not fight but will not hesitate to make it clear that dogs are not welcome in her space, she will also lunge when on a lead as she feels more threatened when confined. Being a greedy girl, she is normally quite easy to distract away from other dogs with food.

It may be that your girl is feeling a bit overwhelmed by doggy day care and having to face all those dogs so is not really coping and it is making her worse, factor in all the changes in her life and the fact she is still very young, would it be better to stick to the male dog walker she is confident with rather than day care? She will also be picking up your anxieties and this will make her more insecure and reactive. You may have more control if you use a harness (you may already). Do you have a friend you can walk with who has a calm dog, this may also help her?

I hope the situation improves for you both soon, try to remain calm and use distractions with her, possibly when life returns to normal she will regain her confidence, she sounds as if she has a lovely home. Sue.

[edardass]

I love your user name !

I agree about the insecurity, she was very playful with other dogs over a month ago. She loved to play… a little rough but she definitely did not show aggression or indifference to other dogs before my injury.
I also agree about the daycare, I talked to the doggie trainer about it, she said that she really needs the day care because she is also showing separation anxiety and therefore it would be good for her. The dog walker twice a week is very expensive, and is only for about an hour or so. But I will try that this week and keep prying it helps.

I have a gentle lead on both since I only weigh 115lbs and the dogs can take me wherever they want, walking two labs with one hand is not easy . We recently relocated to San Diego so I don’t have anyone to help me walk the dogs hence having to pay for a dog walker. It is really getting too expensive, and walking them off leash was part of my stress relief, I don’t want to lose the fun of seeing my dogs run free and have a great time.

Thank you
Elle

[jacksdad]

reading the entire thread...your last post put some pieces to the puzzle.

recent move to a new home
husband disappears
your injured and can't take dogs on walks

any one of those by it's self could trigger a change in a dog. having all three...lot for your dog to deal with in a short amount of time.

doggie day care may not be helping as much as you hope/think. If a dog is struggling to deal with other dogs, often forcing a dog to be in close to and within an enclosed space such as dog daycare or a dog park make matters worse for dogs dealing with fear/confidence/stress issues. particularly if the trigger seems to be....other dogs. Since you seem to indicate your dog is being aggressive towards other dogs off leash as well as on. I would urge you to error on the side of caution and end dog day care for now.

separation anxiety. to address this you need to know what your dog is feeling anxiety about being separated from. If she is anxious about being a lone period verses a particular person or another dog, then dog day (assuming no other dog related issues) might be helpful because she would be around others and not alone. however, if the anxiety is about being separated from someone in particular such as your self, your husband, your other dog...then dog day care isn't going to do anything to address this.

protection verse guarding. after reading your last post I would urge you to really consider that your dog isn't protection you. rather your dog is guarding you. assuming she hasn't zoned you out when the other dogs are around. when I say guarding think "food guarding" not protecting you from a "threat". dogs will sometimes guard their people just like they will guard a bone or their food bowl. they aren't discriminating and assessing if something is actually a threat that is approaching...everything is and must be keep away because you are a VERY important resource in their life. you give them love, food, walks, toys etc. if they are insecure or their world has been turned up side down, it's an attempt to keep what is left from leaving or being taken away etc.

if your dog does this around other dog only it's possible it's not even guarding but just an over reaction to being near another dog. and if this is the case the more aroused and worked up, the less aware of you your dog is and is most defiantly not worried about you, it's all dogs for them self in this case.

have you talked with your dog walker about what he is doing when she "acts up" towards another dog? you want to make sure his isn't "correcting" her (as in punish), leash popping, yelling at etc.

your dog is stressed out, had some changes that shook her world.

What I would highly recommend is you give her a break. no more dog day care, no more allowing dogs to come up to her, do not try and go to other dogs and say hi etc. give here a week or two with as close to no other dog or humans if she is having a hard time with them too as possible.

then find the distance she can stay calm when other dogs are around and keep that distance. when she looks at other dogs, give her a really yummy treat and move on and way. in time you can reduce this distance. but right now you need to rebuild her association with other dogs so that they are as all positive as possible.

I would highly recommend you pick up this book. http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/produc ... eisty-fido

if she is aggressive off leash too right now, no more off leash. BUT you can "compromise" by using a 15 foot lead when at places like the beach or walking in wide open parks or fields and you aren't sure if there are other dogs around. I used one for months with my dog who would flip out if he even saw another dog at any distance. today, I can let him off leash at the beach no problems and you will get back to this point to, but it could take a little time.

please do not hesitate to ask more questions if you have them.

[edardass]

Thank you so much for your response, I asked the walker what he does to correct her and he said he grabs her tail and puts her on her back to let her know she is not alpha, he has done that a few times and he said she has not done attacked since. I don’t know what to say about that one

Right now she attacks when she is playing and a dog interrupts her or goes for the stick or ball. I like your idea with the long lead and she usually listens to leave it if I catch her in time. I do believe it is resource guarding because nothing else seems to trigger it.

[runlikethewind]

You are going to get everyone telling to ditch that dog walker right now. Don't go near this person again. He/she will not be helping your dog AT ALL. Serious fallouts occur from this ridiculous 'alpha pinning'/ Go over to the articles section and read the article about Dominance fact or fiction I think it is called. You must not let this person near your dog again. That goes for all the other dogs in his/her care too.

[jacksdad]

You are going to get everyone telling to ditch that dog walker right now. ....

Have we become that predictable...

seriously though, runlikethewind is right though. this isn't the dog walker for you. I would bet his next walking fee the reason she hasn't done it again with him is FEAR..not that it solved the problem.

Thank you so much for your response, I asked the walker what he does to correct her and he said he grabs her tail and puts her on her back to let her know she is not alpha, he has done that a few times and he said she has not done attacked since. I don’t know what to say about that one

here is the thing about "alpha" dogs. First, they aren't dime a dozen. which means not everyone with a dog behavior problem has a "wannabe alpha" battling for control. second, true "alpha dogs" are highly confident, and if your dog was an actual "alpha" type dog we wouldn't even be having this discussion about her reactions to other dogs. you might have other issues you need help with, but it would be very odd to have this one. real alpha's don't roll other dogs, other dogs naturally "submit" or defer to them or just give them space. the really good "alpha" everyone wants to be around, both dogs and people..they just give off this air of confidence, verse random attacks and stressful unpredictability.

What your walker did was "randomly" attack her (dogs perspective) and if he does this enough she will shutdown to avoid these random attacks. doesn't mean her fear or anxiety or stress when away, it's just now bottled up. IF she ever connects these "attacks" with other dogs, it WILL increase your difficulties. she will try that much harder through barking, lunging and growling to drive the other dog away EVEN knowing the "attack" from the human (alpha roll, leash pop, tail pulling etc) is coming. puts the dog in a catch 22 because other dogs now have become a predictor have a random unpleasant attack by the human next to them. to not get attacked by the human, your dog must drive the other dog away, to do this she must do what triggers the human to pull her tail and alpha roll her.

Right now she attacks when she is playing and a dog interrupts her or goes for the stick or ball. I like your idea with the long lead and she usually listens to leave it if I catch her in time. I do believe it is resource guarding because nothing else seems to trigger it.

If your dog walker was doing the right thing, this would not be an issue still...

now that you have shared this, going to recommend another book for you

http://www.scaredydog.info/index.html

wish you were closer, I am up in the San Fran area and have access to a great trainer/behaviorist. the closest I could find in your area was http://www.dogmantics.com/Dogmantics/Home.html her videos and info on the website have the right feel. she might know of a good dog walker to help you.

if you can't afford professional help (understandable given today's economy) all is not lost if you are willing to read the books I linked and be willing to let your dog move at it's own pace. we can help you out too. several of us here have or had reactive dog where fear was the issue. if you do look for professional help, be it a dog walker or trainer/behaviorist here is some thoughts to help you pick a good one. viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6484

[edardass]

My heart fell to the floor when he said that! I feel that I let her down; I wish I asked him earlier

Thank you so much for the books you recommended I will definitely get them. In regards to training we go to intermediate doggie classes every Saturday, a behaviorist is absolutely too expensive now.

OK so no doggie day care and no dog walker now, I go back to the immediate issue of how do I walk my two labs by myself with one hand (preferably off leash) and no help? How does she let out all the puppy chocolate lab energy that she has every day? Walking her on leash is never enough and I walk a lot! Yesterday was 4 miles; before that was 3. I know you mentioned the long lead with no dogs around, but I live in San Diego and all the dog beaches and parks are always busy.

Elle

[edardass]

Ps thanks again for the links. They are very helpful

[minkee]

You are going to get everyone telling to ditch that dog walker right now. ....

wish you were closer, I am up in the San Fran area and have access to a great trainer/behaviorist. the closest I could find in your area was http://www.dogmantics.com/Dogmantics/Home.html her videos and info on the website have the right feel. she might know of a good dog walker to help you.

Just wanted to add that I really like Emily (kikopup on youtube). She seems bright, knowledgeable and positive through and through.

[Mattie]

Thank you so much for your response, I asked the walker what he does to correct her and he said he grabs her tail and puts her on her back to let her know she is not alpha, he has done that a few times and he said she has not done attacked since. I don’t know what to say about that one

That is abuse, ditch that dog walker NOW, it does a lot of damage putting a dog on its back but to pull its tail as well can do a lot of damage to your dog's spine, the tail is all part of the spine. Terriers are bred to have the part of the tail closest to the body to be stronger than the rest, they also have their tails docked a little longer so when underground they can be pulled out by the tail, any further down the tail does a lot of damage. I would check your dog's tail to make sure there are no sore spots, if there are get her to the vet and send the bill to the dog walker. He should never be trusted with any dogs.

My heart fell to the floor when he said that! I feel that I let her down; I wish I asked him earlier

Don't blame yourself, you done what you thought was the best for your dog, there is nothing wrong with that, you emplyed this dog walker because you thought he was good, he abuses the dogs in his care.

There are things you can do in the house with your dogs will will help them, teach them to help you round the house like fetching named items, loading and unloading the washing machine, some dogs can even be trained to help you get dressed Also play mind games, do a search on here there is quite a bit of information on this, an easy one to start with is the 3 cup trick, a treat under a cup, move the cups round and the dog has to find the treat, when he does he gets it as a reward. One of my dogs is so thick he couldn't work it out, he will get it eventually.

Training and mind games will go a long way to exercising your dogs because they are exercising their brain, I am asuming you are on crutches, you can still put up an small agility course made out of anything you have and get your dogs to go over or under them. It can be done when you only have the use of one leg because I have done it. It was hard work though but worth it for my dogs.

[edardass]

What do you think about muzzling her on our off leash walks at the beach? This way she is getting her exercise and not aggressing against other dogs. The leash walking is just not enough for her and I have to be patient for the training to work.

[Nettle]

Muzzling is very tricky. The dog knows it is helpless and other dogs know too. This means lack of confidence which equals MORE reactiveness. It's up to you, but I'd go with management and avoidance. If a muzzled dog is attacked, it's really bad for that dog and will take a long time to undo.